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Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
133
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Posted - 2015.06.23 15:00:38 -
[1] - Quote
It's odd i have never really seen it as an issue and have always just planned accordingly depending on the site. If anything i feel it adds more fun to the hunt as most site runners are unlikely to offer any real fight. Regardless of rat aggro any smart PvE player is going to be difficult to catch (sitting off beacon, watching d-scan etc and generally paying attention) and those players require modified tactics, such as combat recons for initial point, log off traps etc. This is just one example where you must adapt to secure a kill, this is engaging and fun game play in which you devise ways to catch them.
I have listed a few cases below that in my opinion show why the current rat mechanics create good content.
Case 1: Me and a friend caught a 4 billion isk paladin in a besieged site not so long ago, him in a Svipul and me in a Deimos. The fight was stressful having to deal with the high dps rats, maintain point (as he went in and out of bastion) and deal with the paladins damage whilst we tag teamed to get more cap boosters. Had the rats entirely focused him it would have been a very boring and simple tank/spank.
Case 2: We caught a Tengu in a C3 who was tanking an absurd amount of our dps. We had not taken the required neuts to kill him and he very cleverly made the decision to trigger the next wave as he was unable to break us. The combined site/Tengu dps quickly became untankable for us and we had to warp out, whilst he continued to tank it just fine. In this situation he outplayed us and rightfully deserved to keep his ship.
Edit: People are out there Solo ganking PvE players as we speak even in deep Null sec. Certainly your engagement profile solo is not the same as what two players can achieve (Two blops BS taking out ratting carriers for instance) but many players adapted, some did not. Such is Eve. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
135
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 15:27:24 -
[2] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Switch Savage wrote:It's odd i have never really seen it as an issue and have always just planned accordingly depending on the site. If anything i feel it adds more fun to the hunt as most site runners are unlikely to offer any real fight. Regardless of rat aggro any smart PvE player is going to be difficult to catch (sitting off beacon, watching d-scan etc and generally paying attention) and those players require modified tactics, such as combat recons for initial point, log off traps etc. you are absolutely right when you say regardless of rat aggro a smart PvE player is difficult to catch, what I see as issue is that on top of all what you said, you have to deal with rats as well, rendering whole thing for solos virtually impossible - basically neutering a whole class of hunters and their gameplay + removing big chunk of risk from ratters.
I see no issue.
There are players out there catching ratters solo in all kinds of ships as we speak. A smart PvE player should have a solid defense if he chooses to make use of it (most do not). A player who wishes to hunt these types of players should be required to have as much of an intimate knowledge of the site as the PvEr himself (triggers/dps levels/site clear requirements). With this information you are able to either chase him out, kill him or finish the site which will make you some nice Isk. You also have the ability to setup a trap to catch him should you so choose.
Edit: Certainly can link some. Zappity (who posts his stories in CnP) has been out in Null sec recently and whilst he never claims to be an expert ratter hunter, he does just fine. https://zkillboard.com/character/92922536/
Some guys in Corp two manned a carrier the other day as well https://zkillboard.com/kill/47417233/ |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
135
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 15:51:04 -
[3] - Quote
https://zkillboard.com/kill/47152961/ Gila
https://zkillboard.com/kill/47218770/ Gila
https://zkillboard.com/kill/47247764/ Ishtar
https://zkillboard.com/kill/47399652/ Ishtar
https://zkillboard.com/kill/47400027/ Gila
One? I merely use him as an example of someone who is dabbling in mission runner hunting and doing a fine job of it. I did not have to look past the first page.
At this point you are purposely ignoring the fact that people are out there getting excellent solo ratter kills in null sec and i feel i can prove this to you no further. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
135
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 16:01:37 -
[4] - Quote
That was merely one person hunting in null sec who is active on the forums. Agreed not all of them were gated sites so apologies for that. That said it does not invalidate the fact you have many options to hunt such prey in gated plexes of which i have already named some methods that are perfectly valid solo.
Edit: Also i was mainly replying to the original post not the follow up discussion (where i missed the conversation turn to gated plexes.) |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
135
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 16:32:34 -
[5] - Quote
The rats damage i class as a non issue which was the point of this thread but i will explain why.
As a solo hunter you should know the sites you are about to engage within. For example if a besieged site puts out too much damage for you to handle then wait until he has cleared most of the second wave before you engage. This holds true for all non gated sites including wormhole ones. I think we agree on this anyway and its integral knowledge a solo hunter should have, so lets move on to gated.
I agree gates make things more difficult. However an intelligent player utilising knowledge of the mission and D-Scanning for wrecks will be able to ascertain which pocket they are in and roughly how much dps remains on field. Plan accordingly.
This leaves you with the issue that an attentive pver will not be sitting on the beacon and will warp as soon as you enter.
Again i see no real issue with this and you are left with a few options.
1) Finish the site yourself if possible and earn some nice isk
2) Setup a trap for him via combat recon, cloaky, log off trap etc
Often if they were right at the end of the site this will get them rather mad. Mad enough sometimes to come and fight or if not you get some nice isk, win, win. Regardless what happens you have won and he has lost Isk and time. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
135
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 17:09:49 -
[6] - Quote
Well if them warping out when they see you in local is your issue, then you have no need to complain about rats switching aggro as you never get that far. If they do not then my points still stand.
If you are unwilling/unable to finish the site then that is your loss and their gain. When i use log off traps i time it so he is warping back to the initial gate when i log back on. You either point him outside with the rats being a non issue or follow him to the first room and tank them and him in a suitable ship. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
135
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 17:31:20 -
[7] - Quote
If you are hunting these players then ensure you bring a suitable ship for the job and suitable tactics to catch him, that is my point. Them warping out as you enter local and paying attention to D-Scan is a separate issue as mentioned. If they are not paying attention you have time to let the dps drop if you are not in a suitable ship and can plan your attack accordingly. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
136
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 00:33:02 -
[8] - Quote
I generally just disagree with the concept that you should get a free ride from the rats for no real reason. I am of the opinion that if you wish to enter the site and receive a kill mail you should have to deal with the same environmental concerns that the pver himself is facing (as has been said by Mike). Mainly I feel that because the kill you are after is often proportional similar to the difficulty of the site you are attempting to gank inside.
Certainly it would be unjust if the entire room aggro switched to you and my understanding of rat aggro mechanics is far from perfect. However from what experience I do have they seem to share the love equally outside of their hatred for ECM. Imagine being able to waltz into capital escalations and just have your way with the site runners with impunity (other than them fighting back).
Regarding the Tengu example I gave there is numerous things we could have done to secure the kill that we neglected. For example had we researched the site he was, noted the triggers and assessed the wave he was on we could have waited for a more opportune time to strike. I appreciate this is something that is not entirely possible in Null sec due to local, but if they are switched on you will not catch them anyway as Robert mentioned.
Look at Low sec DEDs. A competent and aware PvEr is almost impossible to catch there even with combat recons/cloaks and use of more unscrupulous tactics. This is mainly why I choose to finish sites I chase people out of and earn easy ISK as well as deny them the loot. I have had many good kills from people coming back with more capable combat ships as a result. At least in Null sec you have the ability throw up bubbles on warp paths to stations or POS towers (admittedly this is not a solo endeavor) if they get predictable and lax. One could argue that a PvEr with a brain is a far greater threat (at denying you your kill) than the rats themselves could ever be.
Your argument seems to boil down to the fact that if they are dumb enough to be pointed then you deserve the kill. I partially agree with this however i do find it engaging game play when forced to have intimate knowledge of the PvE site i wish stalk my prey in.
Call me a masochist if you will but It adds variety to the hunt. Anyway that is my thoughts on the matter I'm sure i'll catch you on mumble sometime and perhaps we can debate a bit further.
Happy hunting dude o7. |
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